Parenthood. (Yes, another post about it.)

"mazda616" (mazda616) 01/18/2016 at 22:39 • Filed to: Parenthood

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As some of you know, my wife and I have begun to explore the possibility of having a kid. Backstory here (no, my current car was not a bribe to get me to agree to have a kid):

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Anyway, for someone who is beginning to think about having a child, other people who are already parents can be valuable sources of information. They can give you tips, tricks, advice, warnings, etc. Unfortunately, most of what I’ve seen them give is a sense of fear and dread.

Now, don’t get me wrong. I’m not accusing anyone of being a bad parent. I just think that people sometimes don’t realize what an impact their statements can have. For every happy or uplifting child-related status or photo that I see, there are at least two or three negative ones. It seems all I hear are things like “I used to have a clean car/house, but then I had kids.” “I used to have hobbies. Then I had kids.” “I used to have money. Then I had kids.” “I used to have things of my own. Then I had kids.” “I used to sleep. Then I had kids.” And so on.

Basically, many parents portray life with their children as exhausting, expensive, and sad. I know they don’t mean to, but that’s how it often comes across to perspective parents like myself. Sure, there are Facebook statuses and Instagram posts about the love and the snuggles and the cute sayings, but they seem eclipsed by the #stressedoutmom or #exhaustedparents posts. It’s all scary to me.

As someone who struggles with self-esteem and thinks being a halfway decent father is probably out of his reach, the negative connotations associated with parenthood make me alarmed and also make me feel selfish. I know, I know. Selfish? Yes. I don’t want a disgusting house. I don’t want a disgusting car. I don’t want to not have a life outside of the bathtub and the living room couch in front of Nick Jr. on the television. I don’t want to never sleep again. I don’t want to be broke 24/7. The list goes on.

Does that make me unfit to be a dad? Am I unable to care for a child because I am already putting my needs ahead of said child’s needs (even though the child doesn’t exist yet)? That’s how I feel. It’s all a world unknown to me and what little knowledge I have gained from others has been mostly negative.

I don’t know, maybe I’m listening to the wrong people. Maybe I’m looking at it with the wrong point of view. I am a certified pessimist, after all. But, with today’s social media obsession, it’s hard to take anything at face value. There’s more to many updates than there seems to be, and that “more” is often negative in some way. It has become human nature. We always see the “doom and gloom.” My wife even mentioned minivan ownership for us some day. If that’s not sad, I don’t know what is. (Kidding...sort of.)

Sorry for the rant. I would post this on my Facebook, but my assorted “friends” that all seem to have multiple children under the age of 5 (despite the fact that we’re all in our mid-20s) would be coming for me with pitchforks. Or diaper genies. Same difference.

A pic of my “family sedan” for your time.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > mazda616 01/18/2016 at 22:48

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Not-a-father chiming in. But I speak fluent married man.

Pardon the bluntness, but between this and your previous post, you really don’t sound like you want to have children right now. You might be feeling pressure from your wife since she’s all in and you’re really... not.

MLGCarGuy > mazda616 01/18/2016 at 22:49

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It’s not just the kid’s fault for parents’ issues; around here I find many of the flaws in the kids can be attributed to the parents’ lack of good parenting. They don’t discipline their kids in an effective way, which leaves the kid to do as they wish. I would say that in order to have a smooth parenting life, you would need to develop a plan to teach your kid what’s right and what’s wrong.

The frumious Bandersnatch! > mazda616 01/18/2016 at 22:51

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Crank out some babies. They’re great! I had no interest, but we had one (and stopped), but 5 would’ve been 5xGreat. Daycare can be expensive, but they really don’t eat that much. Get hand me down clothes because they’ll outgrow everything in 3 weeks. You’ll be a good dad because you care about whether or not you’ll be a good dad.

G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 > mazda616 01/18/2016 at 22:53

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You don’t seem like you’re ready to have kids, and that’s okay. Hell, I’ll probably never have kids, and that’s also okay. If you’re not ready, you’re not ready.

My citroen won't start > mazda616 01/18/2016 at 22:56

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I guess people talk more about those negative parts because those are either funny (in a self deprecating kind of way) or more relatable, in the end of the day a kid is going to bring you joy if you really love it (and I hate children).

Planning ahead and knowing the actual important stuff is what you need to do not to end up broke/ exhausted/ bored. Factoring in the general costs, who is going to take care of it at different periods of time, if it is the best time to have a kid. The rest you can figure out as you go.

You don’t need a minivan, you don’t need to move out of the city if you live in a big urban center, you don’t need super special diets. Read some things on DeadSpin, especially Drew Magary.

I’m 25, not married, no kids, so you shouldn’t take me seriously.

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > mazda616 01/18/2016 at 23:06

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Statistically, at least in the western world (and particularly North America), parenthood is inversely correlated with happiness. The people you’re hearing from are completely genuine.

Don’t have children unless you genuinely want them, because they’re a huge responsibility and very expensive. Women will have baby fever periodically from the time they become able to reproduce until menopause, with spikes in the early-mid 20s and mid-late 30s. If you hold off long enough, it’ll pass. They also tend to do it in clusters based on others in their social group having children. Facebook is the devil.

Also, be real with her. Talk about it.

Lastly, don’t hate the minivan. I wish my GF was realistic about them, instead of wanting an SUV. She doesn’t even want a wagon... You should count yourself lucky that your wife is at least practical about it.

mazda616 > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 01/18/2016 at 23:07

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It’s true, although I’m more ready than I used to be. It’s come to a point now where I have had to realize/admit that I’ll never be truly “ready.” But, my wife is. And I love her. So, I’m having to swallow my fear, per se.

mazda616 > G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 01/18/2016 at 23:09

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It’s true, although I’m more ready than I used to be. It’s come to a point now where I have had to realize/admit that I’ll never be truly “ready.” But, my wife is. And I love her. So, I’m having to swallow my fear, per se. And no, I'd never leave my wife. Not for this or anything else. Believe it or not, a lot of Googling has turned up posts with guys telling other guys to do just that. It's depressing and scary how willing some of these guys are to just give up on their relationships rather than working through problems.

PushToStart > mazda616 01/18/2016 at 23:09

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I have absolutely no experience in this at all, but I’m going to chime in anyway.

I saw somewhere (maybe even on Oppo) that would-be bad fathers don’t worry about being bad fathers. If you’re worried, it means you care, which seems like a good starting point for parenting. (again, I have 0 experience so maybe I’m totally wrong)

But if you don’t feel ready, then don’t do it. Having a kid isn’t undoable and it’s a responsibility you have to accept. Talking with your spouse about how you feel is probably the most important thing to do, because not only will you be sure you’re on the same page and know where each other’s minds are at, but maybe it’ll help you understand what you’re feeling better than you are now.

mazda616 > Eric @ opposite-lock.com 01/18/2016 at 23:12

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Only thing I have against a minivan is for us, it’d be unnecessary. We discussed kids before we got married, although not extensively. I want one. And that’s it. She wants two, max. For us, a sedan like mine or a crossover like the one she already has would work fine.

Minivans are expensive if bought new (unless you get a heavily discounted bargain basement Grand Caravan). And, they’re used, abused, and often disgusting if bought pre-owned. Petrified Cheetos in the seat tracks? Mmm.

Ornery Duck Is Always The Answer > mazda616 01/18/2016 at 23:13

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For any good, you’ll hear the bad three-fold. Look at Yelp if you were ever curious about the statistical weight of positive and negative feedback. As a bonus you’ll get to read a short-novel about how the Big Mac did not quite meet the cultured expectations of a 19 year old liberal arts major.

I’m a first time parent, a year and counting and while I was in similar shape going in as you, I absolutely love it. I used to be terrible with other people’s kids but now that I have my own it feels natural and comfortable to be around them and interacting with them.

The biggest challenge is balancing finances and time in respect to the kids and you/partner. I still don’t think the wife and I have that figured out yet but we’re happy and the things we put our energy into before kids has faded into the background a bit. I’m hoping my kids are into cars/bikes so that they may become a part of regular life again. I was always around cars growing up and it’s hard to imagine life without having a ‘project’ in th garage. My earliest memories are of sitting on a 5 gallon bucket at four years old whilst my dad wrenched on a ‘46 Ford Super Deluxe and 78' Chevy Corvette. Both were frame-off restorations and what I consider the birth of my automotive obsession. I certianly won’t force it upon them as everyone, even your own offspring, are different but I hope to share with them what I so thoroughly enjoyed myself as a kid.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > mazda616 01/18/2016 at 23:20

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Didn’t you guys talk about this kind of stuff in depth before marriage? We’re you banking on the idea that you would “come around” to the idea with time because that’s what were all pressured to do?

mazda616 > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 01/18/2016 at 23:21

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We talked about children and that we both wanted to wait. All of our friends were getting married and popping out babies in weeks or months after. We said we wanted time for ourselves first. We are approaching four years. So, we have had that time. I didn't realize how afraid of having a kid I'd be. :-/

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > mazda616 01/18/2016 at 23:22

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First of all, you’re ignoring your namesake:

Mazda5, dude.

Second, there’s only one Chysler minivan in my book.

shop-teacher > mazda616 01/18/2016 at 23:24

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Let me just say that I love being a dad more than I could have ever imagined. The amount of love that you feel when you first see your baby, it’s... It really is indescribable. I’m not going to blow sunshine up your ass, because it is hard, and even the best kid will drive you completely insane sometimes. In my experience, the good faaaaaaar outweighs the bad.

You can still have a clean car and a clean house, you just have to make it a priority. Most parents who have filthy cars and houses don’t, they just accept it and martyr themselves in whiny ass posts, because that’s the easy way out and most people are lazy. I let my daughter eat in the car some, but not messy things, and I vacuum semi-regularly. The key is to teach them to be clean, and teach them to pick up after themselves. My oldest is only three, and just barely, and she is pretty darn good at cleaning up after herself. You have to front load the work. It takes for freaking ever for a 2- year old to clean up after themselves and they do a bad job at that, but by investing the time and effort to make them clean up, it pays huge dividends. The same goes with teaching them how to use silverware, how to sit still and eat, and how to say thank you. They have to be taught, and I’m proud to say my three year old is way neater than her 8 and 11 year old cousins.

I was off work today, just me, the 3-year old, and the 8-month old. Yeah, I watched a lot of Micky Mouse and Curious George, and yeah there was some whining and crying. But I also spent hours on the floor playing with my girls, watching them wrestle and hug. I made grilled cheese for me and the big one, and was met with a, “Thank you for making tasty sandwiches!” I watched the little one finally figure out how to pick up a piece of cheese and put it in her mouth by herself. I gave and received countless hugs and kisses, and heard many giggles and laughs. I even watched the documentary “From Dust to Glory” about the Baja 1000 with my big one snuggled up, while the little one napped. That was just today!

I consider myself a very dedicated dad, and my wife is a very dedicated mom. But we still have hobbies and interests, and we both still do things with our friends and without the kids. Certainly not as much as we used to, but I’ve never once felt like I “lost” myself. Part of being a good parent is not to let yourself drown in it.

Being a good parent is not for the faint of heart, but if it’s something you truly want and are willing to work at, it’s freaking amazing. I’m not the type to say everybody should have kids, but I freaking love being a dad. I wouldn’t trade anything or everything in the world, for those amazing little girls.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > mazda616 01/18/2016 at 23:25

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:(

Wacko > mazda616 01/18/2016 at 23:27

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Dude if you wait till you are ready it will never happen. I had my daughter when I was 34. Since my daughter was 6 months, I have been renovating my house(I jacked the house 15 feet in the air, made a new slab, added walls then sat the house back down) she will be 2 in a month. During all that we also had a boy, who is almost 3 months now. I still have a year and a half of work to do to finish my house.

And since last March, I now drive a 2014 pathfinder, a 7 passenger cvt not a minivan.

But it’s all worth it, just to see the smile on my daughters face, followed by daddy, or papa when I get home from work.

I only speak to the kids in English, and my wife in French

mazda616 > shop-teacher 01/18/2016 at 23:29

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What a thoughtful, honest, educated post. Thank you. Truly.

Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle > mazda616 01/18/2016 at 23:47

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Parenthood is both indescribably hard and rewarding. I don’t think that there is a certain level of confidence or preparedness that one should necessarily have before taking it on.

I have a 18 month old and I honestly can’t say whether or not I would recommend having kids but it’s in large part because of very individual things to me. The one thing that I think would make the biggest difference would be if we had some family within driving distance. My wife and I have a tiny local support structure and I think it’s very challenging.

However, in many ways I still get to do the things I like. I get a run in almost everyday, I have fixed up an old BMW since my daughter was born, we have done camping trips, and go to bars/restaurants(though a lot less since sh became a toddler) and lots of other things we did before hand. We just get out the door a lot slower, some of things are a lot more rewarding, and some of those things are a lot harder.

I Will Always Be The Honey Badger > shop-teacher 01/18/2016 at 23:50

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Amen brother.

smobgirl > mazda616 01/19/2016 at 00:08

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I don’t have kids, but I was one. I also teach. Obviously reality won’t always meet expectations, but I think setting standards is half the battle. They’ll meet them if they don’t know any different.

Growing up, our cars weren’t filthy, because we weren’t allowed to eat in them. The house wasn’t a mess, because the toys stayed in the toy room (3-bedroom house, shared a room with my sis, other bedroom was the playroom). My parents still had a social life - they went out, they went to parties, they hosted parties. They still had hobbies - Dad worked on cars and had his “office” that we weren’t allowed in, Mom’s hobbies were pretty domestic anyway, but she did crafty things and decorated cakes. We took family vacations without a minivan full of kid stuff and I remember going to Road Atlanta and camping as a toddler. Sure, the family car was a station wagon, but Dad still had an XJS or a Corvette or the GTO (and who knows what else that I can’t remember). Yeah, we listened to kid song cassettes sometimes but if Mom wanted her music in the car, we listened to Mom’s music - we learned not to argue if she put her foot down because she didn’t cave just because we whined.

A big thing to remember is just that kids learn by experience. Hand a kid a bag of Cheerios in the car seat and that becomes an expectation. You can pack a duffel bag of toys to wait for a dentist appointment or you can keep a couple hot wheels in your pocket. There will always be exceptional situations, but most of the time they’re perceptive enough to pick up on what’s routine and what isn’t. I’m not advocating tyranny, and kids will always push boundaries (especially toddlers), but if you’re reasonable and don’t take things personally you can steer things the way you prefer.

Textured Soy Protein > mazda616 01/19/2016 at 01:34

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I think you’re worrying too much about this.

I don’t have kids, but plenty of my friends do, and yeah they make messes and keep you up and cost money to feed and their school will hit you up for hundreds of dollars worth of school supplies each year because apparently now being a public school parent means you have to buy fucking dry erase markers for the teacher and enough hand sanitizer for the whole class to give a giraffe a bath in the stuff.

But all those people with kids really like having their kids. Seems to me like there’s plenty of rewards and it’s not that hard to be a competent parent. Pay attention to your kids, give them food and clothes and love and help them with their homework, make them go outside and play, put Band-Aids on scrapes, and make them feel better when they’re down. Just don’t be an asshole.

I’m not in too much of a rush to have kids myself, because I’ve already got my hands full with 3 friggin cats.

Basically, either you’re ready or you’re not. And if you’re not sure, hell, talk to your wife. You’re supposed to be able to talk to your wife about stuff like this. Especially before you end up a dad.

Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast. > mazda616 01/19/2016 at 01:44

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I’ll vouch for this as being the family car. My other car is one of those and it familys very well.

Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast. > mazda616 01/19/2016 at 01:48

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The one thing I realized after having kids is that if you wait until you’re ready, you’ll never be ready. It’s more like when you think you can handle it that you’re ready, and even then you can’t. It’s tough being a dad, worth every minute of it, I wouldn’t trade my kids for anything, (though there are times I am tempted to sell them) See what I mean? It’s a scary propsition and not for the light harted or those that can’t commit to the idea of giving that much of themselves away, because that is really what it is.

BLCKSTRM > mazda616 01/19/2016 at 01:58

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Yeah, it’s hard. So is college.

Worth it? Only you can decide that, but in general most people do it because the answer is usually yes.

Worth it?

Here’s my little man fixing a girlfriend’s jeep (before he could even talk).

Here’s my 11 year-old learning to drive my manual M3.

And I’ll try not to get on my soap box here, but I have strong words for people who think they need a Suburban because they had A KID. As if back seats are some sort of dangerous place if they’re not housed in a minivan or SUV.

See that? That’s three miserable kids crammed in the back of a CTS-V on a cross country road trip.

Yes, we had to go to three rows when we had a fourth. But unless you’re planning on 4 kids, or unless you’re a masochist, stop planning on a minivan.

BLCKSTRM > mazda616 01/19/2016 at 02:15

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Oh yeah, I should have also added (on a non-Jalop topic).

You’ll never be ready.

You can either think you are and then find out you’re wrong, or you can realize you’re not and just do your best.

And the best thing about kids is (you can say this to yourself in John Candy’s voice) kids are resilient.

You really can’t mess them up too bad if you just try to do your best. You can spank them when they’re bad and then hug them and tell them you’re sorry you had to do it, and they’ll cry and hug you back and tell you they love you too. And APOLOGIZE. They’ll forgive you for anything until they become teenagers (I hear - not quite there yet). If you spend time with them sharing what you love with them, they’ll turn out great.

But you’re also got to spend time doing what they love, and just taking care of everything is a full time job. I make it out to the track like once a year. I just don’t have time to go more than that. I have friends with kids who go once a month - maybe you can swing that. But my wife doesn’t have a similar outlet, so I’d feel like a heel if I was gone that much.

But it’s pretty much up to you to figure out what you do and don’t have time for. If you’re mature enough to look inside and decide that (and give it up), that’s as close to ready as it gets.

pImpOfThePerverse > mazda616 01/19/2016 at 02:43

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it’s similar to owning a vintage alfa except women don’t think it’s stupid. You have to be crazy in a certain way to love it after all the sacrifice and punishment, but doing it drives you crazy in just that way. there’s kind of a difference between knowing you’re not ready and feeling like you’re not ready. nobody ever feels ready. after you have kids you don’t care about a lot of stuff anymore. you notice things that would have made you nuts before with a shrug. the stuff i thought i’d miss, i don’t. i just wish i had more adult conversations. good luck, whatever you decide.

That's gonna leave a mark! > mazda616 01/19/2016 at 06:43

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Deciding when to have children is like diving into a cold pool for a swim. Your never ready for the shock but at some point you sack up and jump. The first few minutes are a rush but you quickly get used to it and your mind focuses only on your swimming.

Sometimes we overthink things. If you have a brain and are willing to put in the effort,everything else is on the job training.

Wish my wife had tried to bribe me. I didn’t know it was a possibility.

shop-teacher > mazda616 01/19/2016 at 07:10

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You are very welcome.

One other thing to keep yourself sane as a parent. Do not run to your child every time they fall, or every time they cry. Those parents are always the ones who are exasperated, and their kids are always pansies. Kids are tough if you let them be. You’ll all be happier for it.

shop-teacher > mazda616 01/19/2016 at 07:13

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Oh, it’s terrifying! No doubt about it!

And no, you’ll never really be ready for it. It likely won't ever sink in fully until you're actually holding your baby for the first time. It really knocks you on your ass, in the best way possible.

Tom McParland > mazda616 01/19/2016 at 07:43

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Late to the party so I’ll just say this. Being a dad is great, not easy...but totally worth it. If you are worried about not being good enough, that means you will do just fine.

If you ever need any advice, there are lots of people here on Oppo that would be happy to help.

TheRealBicycleBuck > mazda616 01/19/2016 at 09:23

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Two-time Dad here. You bring up a lot of points and it’s impossible to distill them into a simple reply that will put you at ease. To put it in perspective, nothing, and I do mean NOTHING will change your life more than having your first child. There are a number of points where people tell you that your life is going to change - getting your first car; graduating from high school; turning 21; graduating from college; getting married - and they are right, all of these lead to big changes in both your independence and level of responsibility. But nothing changes a person more than being a parent. And I’m not talking about the absentee “dad” who stops by to visit on some weekends and birthdays. I’m talking about a man who takes responsibility for another life, one who is wholly dependent on others. There is no greater responsibility and there is no greater reward.

Now about your concerns/complaints. Everything in life is a balancing act. At every stage, people must make choices. The trick is understanding the consequences of each alternative and picking one with full knowledge of what that entails. Let’s talk about your concerns.

You want a clean car? Don’t let the kids eat or drink anything while in it. It seems simple, but it isn’t. If you don’t want the kids to eat or drink in the car, you must plan accordingly. You will need to allow for extra time on every trip so that you have an opportunity to feed the kids outside the car. Or you can do as we did: kids can eat to their hearts’ content in Mom’s car , but food and drink aren’t allowed in Dad’s car. The end result? Mom’s car smelled like spoiled milk until the kids were old enough to not spill milk in the car. Dad’s car still looks new two years later.

You want a sparkling clean house? If both of you work, be prepared to either work hard every night and weekend to keep it clean, or hire a maid to help, at least until the kids are old enough to help keep the house straight. Procedures to minimize clutter and stay on top of the cleaning are required. Oh, and don’t have pets. The alternative is for one of you to stay home with the kids.

You want to avoid watching cartoons all the time? Turn them off. I grew up with seven channels - three network, three local UHF, and PBS - none of which showed cartoons at night. Saturday mornings were for cartoons. The rest of the time, we watched what my mom wanted to watch. Once kids start sleeping through the night, they will go to bed several hours before you do. That’s cleaning time, resting time, hobby time, and hanging out with your significant other time. The first year or so is hard, but it gets better.

Money is always an issue. You either keep control of your budget or it will control you. With kids, you will have to sacrifice some of your toys. The flip side is that you get to share some of your passions with your kids. Mine work on the cars with me. My son and I bond over games and Scouts. My daughter and I bond over books and archery. I get to enjoy some of the things I love while sharing them with my kids.

I did choose to give up a few things that I dearly miss: motorcycles, SCUBA, and hang gliding. I chose to reduce my risky activities in a bid to make sure I am around long enough to care for my kids. It’s worth it.

I’ll wrap this up with one last thought. There’s nothing better than a big hug and an “I love you” from your child. It’s the way you know you’ve done something right.

Dru > mazda616 01/19/2016 at 09:24

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A little tardy to this party, but you and I are in similar situations.

Wife and I are on our third year of marriage, and she periodically gets baby fever. For now, that fever has been encased in Tupperware and tossed in the fridge as she decided to help her brother start a business. Money is extremely tight, so she knows what is and isn’t practical.

I can’t stand when people say “if you wait until you can afford it you’ll never have kids.” I can appreciate the sentiment, but stop counting my money for me. I periodically have to make $100 last 6 days. Until that comes to an end, I am not having kids.

I plan to try and keep my hobbies, even if as an afterthought, and hopefully get my offspring interested in the same things, if they are so inclined. If your kids become 100% of your identity, eventually they’ll grow up and move out, and you won’t have an identity.

Lastly, I do not understand why people go get an suv after having one kid. I grew up in 2 door first generation 4Runners. But once my brother was born ('97), my folks got an expedition. I'm okay with having a coupe with only one child, it's certainly an inconvenience until they can get in and out themselves, but if I can cart my wee one around in an M2, I'll deal.

Manny05x > mazda616 01/19/2016 at 10:30

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I have a 10 year old I love being a father; yes you do give up some things but you also gain a lot. I had my daughter at a very young age so I gave up those things very early,if I did it I don’t know what people whine about. I'll do wagon over mini van all day I dread that day lol.

Mechanic Matt > mazda616 01/19/2016 at 10:46

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Mid-30's Dad with two boys 3 & under here. There is and will always be a dichotomy of being a parent. There will be inconveniences to your life, your time will fill up, but that time will be filled with people that you will love more than anything and will share that love back. My wife and I waited until our 30's to have kids so we were financially stable to have them, but I don’t think that was necessary now that I am on the backside of this. I wish I did it in my late 20's just to be a younger man with my kids.

All that said, remember for every bad child, or excessive parent, or overblown situation there is, there is an equal amount of people trying to raise good kids. Society and Babies ‘r’ us will want you to get every accessory known to man as a needed item and it can all be overwhelming. But reality is you do the best you can, enjoy the the heck out of the baby, and have fun raising them.

Your hobbies won’t drastically change, but your habits probably will. So will what you think is important in life, not just who is important but what is important. It just does, and it isn’t bad. The fact that you are being so thoughtful about the choice, means you will be thoughtful as a parent. It will change your life, but that isn’t a bad thing.

Good luck, whatever you decide.

ArmadaExpress drives a turbo outback > My citroen won't start 01/19/2016 at 11:06

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I’m 29 with two kids. You’re reply is pretty close. It’s not as big of a deal if you’re prepared and have a S.O. that is reliable and responsible. I’ve been blessed with an incredible wife that is happy to share the work-load with me, and I can’t complain.

Sasquatch > mazda616 01/19/2016 at 11:44

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I wrote you a very long reply and kinja ate it. So I’m going to be brief here.

http://oppositelock.kinja.com/ojibwe-forest-…

That was one of the best days of the past year for my son and I. Those are the days that make memories together. Even though I saw way less rally than I would have alone I got to create a memory for my son. And that was way more fun.

Side note, the reason the bad stuff seems to be out there more is because it is so much easier to complain about a dirty car etc than it is to successfully encompass the passion, joy, and fulfillment you bring to yourself while raising a child. It’s hard to cover in a book let alone a Facebook post. But it is The most enjoyable important thing I will do in this lifetime.

The fact that you are worried about it tells me you will be a good parent. Because shitty parents don’t care enough to worry.

vicali > mazda616 01/19/2016 at 11:50

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Another mid-thirties dad of two little ones here. 4 year old son and 2 year old daughter..

People whine about stuff that’s hard, and nothing is harder than being a parent. Between the birthday party out-dooers, the complaining parents, and the cute photo overload FB is not the place to be researching this..

Our moment was coming in the door of our house the first time with our son, he was sleeping in the carseat, all buckled in properly and approved by the nurse.. We set him down inside the door and both sat there on the floor looking at him. “What now?”

Then he got hungry, and then pooped, then there was something else to get ready... etc, etc.. It’s a constant for the first few years, the second one is way easier because you know the game.

We are just getting to the point where they get their own things and needing less help and more discussions and answers. It’s so fun - they both sing Flight of the Concord songs, my son tries to breakdance, they point out cool cars all the time.

Wouldn’t trade it for anything in the world.

TheRealBicycleBuck > mazda616 01/19/2016 at 12:44

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One thing to note - once you stop using all the things that prevent pregnancy, it may take some time, in some cases quite some time, before pregnancy happens. Source? A friend who is a fertility specialist.

In our case, we didn’t have any issues. I have a couple of kids that prove no form of birth control is 100% effective. :D

mazda616 > TheRealBicycleBuck 01/19/2016 at 12:49

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That is true. I've heard that before as well.

TheRealBicycleBuck > mazda616 01/19/2016 at 13:15

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One thing to keep in mind about being “ready.” There is a lot to be said for having kids when you are younger instead of older. One of my uncles was born a few months after me. He was the last of the five and was born nearly 10 years after his next nearest sibling. His mother was 40. My mother was 20.

His closest brother was the only one still at home when he was born. by the time he was a teenager, all of his older siblings were gone and his parents were in their mid-50s.

His parents, my grandparents, were just too tired to deal with disciplining him all the time, and that was the biggest difference in our upbringing.

All of his older siblings grew up to be responsible adults. Being the same age (3 months apart) and being raised within the same family, he and I make a good case study on the effects of aging on parenting. I went on to get several graduate degrees, have a good job, and have gone on to raise a couple of fantastic kids of my own. He nearly dropped out of high school, went on to community college, got a girl pregnant, and ended up in the Navy in order to make ends meet. After making four more babies, he made some big mistakes that would have landed him in jail, so he committed suicide, leaving five girls without a dad, the youngest being just a few months old. Our family is still dealing with the aftermath of his upbringing.

It wasn’t because he wasn’t smart, it was because nobody had the stamina to give him the attention he needed to keep him in line.

Youth plays a big role in how well parents do their job. I’m convinced there’s a sweet spot where you are old enough to avoid, or at least recover from, stupid mistakes and still young enough to have the energy to raise children.

WiscoProud > mazda616 01/19/2016 at 13:47

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Father of an 18 month old here. Many of the negative things you posted are true, but they are so overwhelmingly outweighed by the good it makes up for it. Everytime I come home and hear my daughter yell “Dada” then come scurrying to the door, all the stresses of the day disappear.

Kids are messy, expensive, and quite often gross. But its an incredibly satisfying journey. Your life will change, there’s no two ways around it, but its only a negative change if you make it one.

ttyymmnn > mazda616 01/20/2016 at 11:41

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Basically, many parents portray life with their children as exhausting, expensive, and sad.

Because it is. But it’s also not all that. A little background.

I’m 49 years old, I’ve been married for 25 years, and I have three boys, aged 10, 10 and 13. Yes, twins. (I had planned on having two kids, but instead I got two more). My wife and I waited a long time to have children because I was getting my doctorate in music and I was expecting to get a college teaching job somewhere. We always said that we wanted, if possible, to have one parent stay home with the kids, and it was supposed to be my wife. But, when the college gig didn’t happen, and our biological clocks were ticking, we figured that if we waited for the right time that time would never come. So we decided to start a family. It was very difficult conceiving our first child (that’s a story in itself), and we had one miscarriage early on. But we finally conceived, and my wife gave birth to our first son.

Like you, I had seen all the movies and TV shows and books. I expected to look down into the crib at that helpless child and be flooded with feelings of joy and a sense of completeness. Nope. I wouldn’t say I dreaded it, but I just didn’t feel it. And that’s not to say that I didn’t love our new son. But society sets you up for certain expectations and, when you don’t feel the same way somebody does in a Hallmark movie, you start to wonder if you’ve done the right thing. I certainly did. Because, as you mentioned, your life is turned upside down. Pretty much every fiber of your being is now directed to keeping this little lump of flesh alive. Really, it’s a lot of work. And sleep deprivation is a bitch. Since I never got a job, I ended up being the stay-home dad. As a musician, I can work nights and weekends, but all day long, I was responsible for keeping our son alive (and entertained). I managed it (he didn’t die), but I can tell you that it can be an incredibly frustrating ride. Carving out a few minutes of peace and quiet can become a life saver. But I survived, and I think you would too.

Then our twins came along. If you thought sleep deprivation was a thing with one, try it with two.

But as difficult as it has been, I don’t regret it. And that’s not a sales job (to you or myself). I really do. Though I still have trouble feeling joy being a dad. I struggle daily with the challenges of trying to get three boys to simply be civil to each other. My 13-year-old makes me angrier than I’ve ever been, and we often end up yelling at each other, but not without a quiet talk afterward to try and figure out what went wrong.

All I can really tell you is that parenting isn’t for everybody, but that doesn’t mean that it isn’t worthwhile. Everybody reacts differently to fireworks or cheeseburgers. Why should being a parent be any different? You said:

As someone who struggles with self-esteem and thinks being a halfway decent father is probably out of his reach, the negative connotations associated with parenthood make me alarmed and also make me feel selfish.

I will tell you this: There are no good or bad parents. There are only parents who try and those who don’t try. If you do have kids, you will suffer all the negative things that you mentioned: world turned upside down, less time with your wife, less time for the things you like to do. But you are also given the opportunity to work together with the woman you love to try and mold a new human being into a better person than either of you are individually. And it really is a decision that you must make together, because as you have taken a vow to be with this person til you die, you are making a similar pact with that new baby. I can also guarantee you that there are no perfect families.

Having children is a monumental challenge, probably greater than any other challenge you have ever faced. But it does have its rewards, even though it can seem like they will never come. Take your time. Talk to your wife. Make sure she knows how you feel. Together, you will figure out what is best for both of you.

Best wishes.